Comments on: Horses of the Decade: 2000-2009 http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/ Fri, 20 Aug 2010 04:08:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Frederico http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-70 Frederico Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:41:37 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-70 Really good post. Enjoyed reading it thoroughly :) Really good post. Enjoyed reading it thoroughly :)

]]> By: sbloomer http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-68 sbloomer Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:58:37 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-68 Thanks Darrell for replying. I only read your post and others like it yesterday just in time to coincide with baseball's HOF discussion. You're more pessimistic than I'd be.  My idea was given enough time and that you vote 1 male and 1 female per year, you would expect an average decade would get 10 of each (given the present voting procedure). So I went back and counted the horses in the HOF today from both the 70s and 80s (the ones on the decade borders I slotted into the decade that made them a HOFer - so Spectacular Bid is a 70s horse, John Henry a 80s horse, Go for Wand a 90s horse). It went like this: 1970's - 14 males, 7 females 1980's - 9 males, 10 females with not a whole lot of questionables in those 40. I compiled a list of who I thought will make it from the 00s (that's sort of different than who deserves to be in), based on precedent. Tiznow is in already. Azeri, RA, Zenyatta, Ghostzapper obviously. Curlin had both better 3 and 4 y.o. seasons than Tiznow, so he's in. Miesque's in the HOF - so multiple Breeders Cup winners from Europe with excellent European race records are in - Goldikova and High Chaparral for sure, Ouija Board almost assuredly though her 2 US victories were not in open company, Conduit?? nah!  Invasor was a HoY, never lost in the US in a handful of US starts - All Along as a HOF might be a good comparable, and so he's in. That's 4 males, 5 females for sure. AP Indy's presence in the HOF gives hope to the lightly raced, seldom defeated 3 y.o's of the '00s, though none of these should be in before say Spend a Buck who was simply more brilliant. Amongst sprinters Xtra Heat had a great record but only beat boys once and shouldn't be in before Safely Kept.  Ashado as a 2 time eclipse award winner might, as might Ginger Punch - despite very solid records over multiple years, these 2 don't scream HOF to me. Anyways, a rather subpar decade. So here's hoping for the 10s and that Gio Ponti and Summer Bird return and kick some tail this year, which is what we really need, good horses with more longevity.       Thanks Darrell for replying. I only read your post and others like it yesterday just in time to coincide with baseball’s HOF discussion. You’re more pessimistic than I’d be.  My idea was given enough time and that you vote 1 male and 1 female per year, you would expect an average decade would get 10 of each (given the present voting procedure). So I went back and counted the horses in the HOF today from both the 70s and 80s (the ones on the decade borders I slotted into the decade that made them a HOFer – so Spectacular Bid is a 70s horse, John Henry a 80s horse, Go for Wand a 90s horse).
It went like this:
1970′s – 14 males, 7 females
1980′s – 9 males, 10 females
with not a whole lot of questionables in those 40.
I compiled a list of who I thought will make it from the 00s (that’s sort of different than who deserves to be in), based on precedent.
Tiznow is in already. Azeri, RA, Zenyatta, Ghostzapper obviously. Curlin had both better 3 and 4 y.o. seasons than Tiznow, so he’s in. Miesque’s in the HOF – so multiple Breeders Cup winners from Europe with excellent European race records are in – Goldikova and High Chaparral for sure, Ouija Board almost assuredly though her 2 US victories were not in open company, Conduit?? nah!  Invasor was a HoY, never lost in the US in a handful of US starts – All Along as a HOF might be a good comparable, and so he’s in.
That’s 4 males, 5 females for sure. AP Indy’s presence in the HOF gives hope to the lightly raced, seldom defeated 3 y.o’s of the ’00s, though none of these should be in before say Spend a Buck who was simply more brilliant. Amongst sprinters Xtra Heat had a great record but only beat boys once and shouldn’t be in before Safely Kept.  Ashado as a 2 time eclipse award winner might, as might Ginger Punch – despite very solid records over multiple years, these 2 don’t scream HOF to me.
Anyways, a rather subpar decade. So here’s hoping for the 10s and that Gio Ponti and Summer Bird return and kick some tail this year, which is what we really need, good horses with more longevity.
 
 
 

]]> By: Darrell http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-67 Darrell Wed, 06 Jan 2010 05:16:17 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-67 <p><cite class="fn">sbloomer</cite>,</p> <p>I don't know if that's necessarily the case since there will undoubtedly be a lot of leftovers from previous decades who could/should qualify, but to play along...</p> <p>10 Females: Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Azeri</p> <p>10 Males: Ghostzapper</p> <p>OK...I'm falling a little short.  I could be forgetting 1 or 2 but offhand those are really the only horses that rise to the level of being Hall of Famers.  I really can't see anyone else being considered a true "great" on the basis of accomplishment + ability.</p> <p>Fortunately this time will be able to be used to get in some others who deserve to be there but have been left off due to too much competition.</p> <p>Time to revise the criteria.  1 per year is ridiculous.  Some years they all deserve it and some years none deserve it.</p> sbloomer,

I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case since there will undoubtedly be a lot of leftovers from previous decades who could/should qualify, but to play along…

10 Females: Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Azeri

10 Males: Ghostzapper

OK…I’m falling a little short.  I could be forgetting 1 or 2 but offhand those are really the only horses that rise to the level of being Hall of Famers.  I really can’t see anyone else being considered a true “great” on the basis of accomplishment + ability.

Fortunately this time will be able to be used to get in some others who deserve to be there but have been left off due to too much competition.

Time to revise the criteria.  1 per year is ridiculous.  Some years they all deserve it and some years none deserve it.

]]> By: sbloomer http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-66 sbloomer Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:01:12 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-66 It's hard to comment on a such a list. Given how few times many of the champions of the '00s raced, it's hard to compile a gaudy list of accomplishments, as your post underlines. And this leaves me underwhelmed by the whole thing (not your fault). Nonetheless, you are right about Ghostzapper, and about Ouija Board being overrated (she was Euro horse of the year one year when Pride was the better older mare that year). But here's one you can tackle in another thread - how horses from the 00s  should be HOFers? The expectation should be that there will be 10 males and 10 females in this decade It’s hard to comment on a such a list. Given how few times many of the champions of the ’00s raced, it’s hard to compile a gaudy list of accomplishments, as your post underlines. And this leaves me underwhelmed by the whole thing (not your fault). Nonetheless, you are right about Ghostzapper, and about Ouija Board being overrated (she was Euro horse of the year one year when Pride was the better older mare that year).
But here’s one you can tackle in another thread – how horses from the 00s  should be HOFers? The expectation should be that there will be 10 males and 10 females in this decade

]]> By: Darrell http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-65 Darrell Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:36:42 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-65 <p>Thanks Steve - appreciate the nice words.</p> <p>Invasor is one of those horses that I thought started out very underrated but ended up a bit overrated.   That said, your comment caused me to look back and realize I made a mistake in that Invasor also won 4 Grade 1's in his championship season.  Not sure how I overlooked that.  By that measure he'd certainly have to rank right along with Saint Liam (better overall season) and Mineshaft (not as strong a season, but did run in and win the Classic).  Even though the accomplishments pale in comparison, I just can't put any of them ahead of Ghostzapper because of how scary talented he was and how much better than any of those he was.   Good call though.   I will check out your blog as well.</p> <p>Darrell</p> Thanks Steve – appreciate the nice words.

Invasor is one of those horses that I thought started out very underrated but ended up a bit overrated.   That said, your comment caused me to look back and realize I made a mistake in that Invasor also won 4 Grade 1′s in his championship season.  Not sure how I overlooked that.  By that measure he’d certainly have to rank right along with Saint Liam (better overall season) and Mineshaft (not as strong a season, but did run in and win the Classic).  Even though the accomplishments pale in comparison, I just can’t put any of them ahead of Ghostzapper because of how scary talented he was and how much better than any of those he was.   Good call though.   I will check out your blog as well.

Darrell

]]> By: Steve M. http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-64 Steve M. Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:11:13 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-64 Darrell, This is one of the better "best of the decade" list I've seen IMHO. Finally, someone willing to give Storm Flag Flying her due. Halfbriddled was great but thought Storm Flag's BC performance was incredibly gutsy for a two-year old. I picked Ghostzapper as my horse of the decade just based on raw talent, but it was nice to see Mineshaft getting some props. Mineshaft's had a great four year old campaign but his competition wasn't flattering. I thought he missed the BC Classic due to injury but maybe the connections thought he nothing left to prove - dunno. Always suspected the Jockey Club Gold Cup was gonna be his last race. Only quibble w/ your list was that Invasor deserved consideration as best older horse in addition to Ghostzapper and Mineshaft. But in the end, Ghostzapper's best looked to be better than any other horse we've seen this decade. Aptly named becuase he was scary on the track. Darrell,
This is one of the better “best of the decade” list I’ve seen IMHO. Finally, someone willing to give Storm Flag Flying her due. Halfbriddled was great but thought Storm Flag’s BC performance was incredibly gutsy for a two-year old.

I picked Ghostzapper as my horse of the decade just based on raw talent, but it was nice to see Mineshaft getting some props. Mineshaft’s had a great four year old campaign but his competition wasn’t flattering. I thought he missed the BC Classic due to injury but maybe the connections thought he nothing left to prove – dunno. Always suspected the Jockey Club Gold Cup was gonna be his last race.

Only quibble w/ your list was that Invasor deserved consideration as best older horse in addition to Ghostzapper and Mineshaft. But in the end, Ghostzapper’s best looked to be better than any other horse we’ve seen this decade. Aptly named becuase he was scary on the track.

]]> By: Jessica Chapel / Railbird v2 - Racing ’09, ’00s in Review: The List of Lists http://farewelltokings.com/2009/12/horses-of-the-decade-2000-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-63 Jessica Chapel / Railbird v2 - Racing ’09, ’00s in Review: The List of Lists Sat, 26 Dec 2009 13:54:19 +0000 http://farewelltokings.com/?p=242#comment-63 [...] Horses of the Decade (Farewell to Kings)* [...]

[...] Horses of the Decade (Farewell to Kings)* [...]

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